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Most users ever online was 16 on Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:17 am

Department delinquent

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Department delinquent

At one of our early meetings this Pride year, the treasurer asked for our department budget forecasts. I had no idea, and could find out nothing about how Events departments budgeted in earlier Pride years. Thank the Lord, this particular agenda item got shelved and so far no one has decided to resurrect it.

It did get me thinking... how do you access your department budget, since everything begins at 0 Linden? Or is it just a wish list? Or is it like a future and virtual budget? Or even more to the point, if there had been a 200K line item in the budget for committee expenses, who decides the actual department allocations?

Ahh, forget all these questions, I actually have only one: should departments have budgets and use purchase requisitions, the money spent deducted from their department account (or is this too stuffy)?

Marcus Steeplechase
Events Chair, Second Pride 2010
Marcus Steeplechase
SP10 Events Management Chair

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Department delinquent :: Comments


Post on Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:03 pm  Lemonodo Oh

It is the responsibility of the Treasurer under the Charter to prepare a budget. It is not unreasonable to ask that the budget truly reflects the needs of the Committee and Second Pride as a whole. Further, no budget is worth the paper it is written on if it does not merit the approval of the Committee at the very least.

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Post on Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:16 pm  Eaglewoman Lightfoot

As an organization grows, begins to include other endeavors which create "overhead", an operating budget is essential. Part of said budget are allocations to each department. Each department is then responsible for providing any "paperwork" required by the organization as a whole, as to how and where and to whom any monies are spent.
A budget also provides "safety", manageability of funds and accountability.

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Post on Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:55 pm  Marcus Steeplechase

Lemonodo Oh wrote:It is the responsibility of the Treasurer under the Charter to prepare a budget. It is not unreasonable to ask that the budget truly reflects the needs of the Committee and Second Pride as a whole. Further, no budget is worth the paper it is written on if it does not merit the approval of the Committee at the very least.

I understand that the Treasurer prepares the budget and the budget needs to reflect the needs of the committee, but what does that mean regarding departmental budgeting? Does it mean that each year the treasurer can set up a different way of funding each committee, as long as the committee agrees? I'm trying to picture this in RL...

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Post on Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:53 am  Lemonodo Oh

Suppose we accommodate dramatic changes in interpretation of Mission under the Charter and the program morphs into something completely different from one year to the next, some changes easy to anticipate, others shocking in their sheer audacity. Each year a unique budget is drawn up by the new Committee that best fits. We might notice this trend in the present term.

If, on the other hand, the vision and conditions are constant year to year, then of course the new budget would essentially be rolled over from the previous year's. Is everyone asleep? Wake up! But wait a sec! We have term limits that encourage new thinking, and grandfathering in a bunch of numbers is somewhat discouraged.

One of the nice aspects of zeroing out the cash balance to the designated charity every year is it favors Arrow zero-based budgeting, a well-understood, highly regarded and perhaps the most appropriate technique given the nature of Second Pride in the context of both virtual and real worlds.

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Post on Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:21 am  Meatjockey Lederberg

I see little change this year in the purpose of Second Pride. And I think that, whatever the direction of the Committee Elect, the core purpose & function of the organization will remain the same -- that is, to be a force for the gay community in Second Life, to promote awareness, to raise funds & promote donation to a charity, and generally to do good.

How the Committee Elect chooses to accomplish this is another matter. A healthy organization will experience some refocussing with an infusion of new blood. This is what I believe we are experiencing now.

With that said, I offer that there will always be one primary source of funds - i.e. donations, and predictable expenditures - i.e. sim rentals. This is not an exhaustive list, but I think you sense where I am going.

I am not on a first name basis with the concept of zero-based budgeting, but I do not agree that leaving an incoming committee with empty pockets does anything to further the momentum that would be possible if there were means available to hold events closer to the election, rather than taking a 6-month hiatus before planning the big party. javascript:emoticonp('cheers')

Achieving this would entail dedicating a percentage of funds raised to the survival of the organization. I believe this is also a well-understood principle in RL organizations of this nature. These funds could be designated to the various SLPride committees prior to the election, or held in a contingency fund and disbursed into sub-accounts following the election.

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Post on Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:28 am  Lemonodo Oh

There is no easy answer to this. I have my particular personal views, but if elected to serve as your Treasurer, a technical position, not a policy position, I may set several of these views aside. You might end up being very satisfied with me as your Treasurer and if it is the express will of Second Pride 2010, you will have an incremental budget with all kinds of money at your disposal.

I have spoken to certain advantages of the way we did things in the past and why, and I will speak yet again to this extremely challenging policy topic in hope you're really interested in my views, which may go nowhere, and not out simply to heckle someone.

The theme of Second Pride 2009 was Love, Peace, Unity and Equality. If this theme is taken to heart, it precludes amassing piles of money.

[17:10] JoshBear Sojourner: If the goal is pride.. then .. use the money and if left over then.. go for it.. donate
[17:10] JoshBear Sojourner: BUT
[17:10] JoshBear Sojourner: if its fundraising.. //// then be honest about it.. it's a FUNDRAISER.. sponsored by the pride group
See? There's a difficult distinction here that is unique to pride celebrations, and it is very important. You either celebrate pride or you're out hustling money. All I'm saying is I prefer we link to the core of our past Second Pride festivals. If we do that, it links us all the way back to when we first stood up for ourselves and held those first marches and broke the silence, Stonewall 40 years ago if you will, and that we be about pride tempered by humility and life experience, not about money.

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Post on Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:08 am  Meatjockey Lederberg

But money is what the position of Treasurer is all about. And I am not sure how Love, Peace, Unity and Equality became incongruous with self-sufficiency, but I thank you for clarifying and appreciate your perspective on this.

I am curious to know more about your view of the role. You say it's a technical position - not a policy position. I understood that all members of the committee were charged with being active members. Do you not see discussing & formulating policy as part of fulfilling the role?

I look forward to your response.

PS: I believe that JoshBear has it right. Transparency during the donation as well as the disbursement stage is called for. I strongly believe that a strong, vibrant and self-sufficient organization can do more as a presence within the community and more to contribute financially to a worthy cause than its more humble counterpart.

We are indeed living in an age after Stonewall. I don't know where you live, but here in Vancouver the Gay Pride event is no longer called Gay Pride - it's the Pride Festival. That means everyone from every walk of life, sexual preference & corner of the world comes together to celebrate. My pride walks the streets 365 days a year in 2009. We still enjoy that one week each year where being gay (or a woman, or first nations, or physically challenged - everyone is invited to celebrate their own special circumstances) is specially celebrated, but that week is looking a lot more like real life.

There are still places where that is not true - should we ignore the opportunity to share this joy and pride all year in SL for those whose RL may be pre-Will & Grace?

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Post on Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:08 pm  Lemonodo Oh

Look. When a big 250 pound man comes at me, I run. It's my strategy. What he wants he gets, but that doesn't mean I go without. I just get what I want elsewhere, where the big man doesn't go. This awful thing said, let's look at this. Is it a big-man strategy to change Second Pride into a hard-charging business? The answer is yes, maybe it is. I have been a small person serving on the board of big men and women before, and while I have a voice, I can't claim it carries the day very often. I speak to my beliefs passionately when I can, sometimes even out of place. But mostly, if I'm seated at the table, I do have manners, and what needs doing, my part of it, gets done graciously. So much for an honest assessment of my policy role. If it turns out I fundamentally have no say, I will see if I can get done what I need to do in other ways, but I know I do this at huge cost, because I can get more done seated at the table.

I am discovering in my talks door-to-door that I missed a couple of nuances in campaign contributions when I formed a few ideas about what a Second Pride financial privacy policy should look like. It might be that we should open to the world every $25, $50, $100 contribution! I had thought not. I also thought we should surely divulge the source of that once-a-season sponsored $1m contribution. Um, think again. The opera and symphony get donations that size every year and a good number of those sizable donations are anonymous. Therefore, if elected, I think I must rethink my ideas for a model privacy policy that above all allows for the donor to decide whether he or she wishes to be anonymous in every instance. We will still record the true source, but we will completely respect the donor's wishes for privacy in our published reports and require oath of confidentiality to gain authorized access to our internal reports where source might appear.

You have questioned and perhaps even trivialized why our particular theme last year, is seemingly inconsistent with the new dream of model proficiency as a year-round non-profit. I have done more to dramatize this distinction under the Arrow Open Letter topic. To expand on the notion I made up on the fly in the video, with the defeat of the Celts, something of tremendous value was lost to even our imagination, but of course we gained the whole of French culture, language and sophisticated outlook through the Normans. All I'm saying is this is a very difficult decision we face.

I live basically in the middle of nowhere, so I can't share your claim to urbane greatness, and I'm not out in any big way. I finally started attending Arrow San Francisco Pride in recent years. I know the office is open all year, but don't know the exact details. Obviously I am very interested in finding out more. It looks to me like it is roughly comparable to our Second Pride as we have been doing it with with our seemingly crazy zero-based budget. The mayor and many others ride up Market Street in parade, but I don't think the Pride staff is a big presence in the parade or anywhere else. I have posted a few of my pictures on the forum, but can't find them right now. It looks to me like they have no problem closing off a few of the city streets (so not their own sim), and setting up some stages. One in front of City Hall is quite elaborate with all the leading acts. Others are off to the side on the back of a truck and the music and overall feeling is much more personal there.

Please tell me about all about Will and Grace. I have no direct experience. Seriously, of course we must grasp these new opportunities as best we can, but not at the expense of our integrity and loss of a substantial part of our heritage.

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Post on Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:35 am  Meatjockey Lederberg


Let me be direct. I am sincerely curious about what you stand for - and what could be expected if you were elected. I don't claim to be great, even urbanely. And I have tried to show you the utmost respect and deference in my questions to you.

So, with that said:

I am unclear how Love, Peace, Unity and Equality is incongruous with self-sufficiency. Could you briefly elaborate? I am not trivializing, I am asking.

I am curious to know more about your view of the role. You say it's a technical position - not a policy position. I understood that all members of the committee were charged with being active members. Do you not see discussing & formulating policy as part of fulfilling the role?

And to the last point of your response, what do you mean by "not at the expense of our integrity and a loss of a substantial part of our heritage?"

I hope you will take these points in the spirit in which they are asked, which is not to be disrespectful, denigrating or rude. After all, since you are running for this office it's understandable that you would get the hard questions.

Likewise, I'm resisting the temptation to interpret your response as sarcastic and a bit defensive, since I am sure you find the keyboard as limiting as I do in communicating the subtleties of genuine intention.

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Post on Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:06 am  Lemonodo Oh

Congratulations, and if I may, in all humility I offer you another welcome to Marketing in Second Pride. Here are interpretations of what I wrote before. I didn't think I could accomplish successful communication before, but now I think I actually can. Let's see.

  1. Peace, Love, Equality and Unity are notions that are each antithetical to serious money grubbing. Peace money? Love money? Equality money? Unity money? Each brings on the gag reflex for me. Money should be incidental to Second Pride and what we receive out of pure generosity should disappear as soon as possible to fund charity rather than sit in our bank account. Who do we think we are to even think we can just hang on to 40%-50% or more of this money? It mustn't be a giant weight that drags us all down, but working hard either for activities we think express Pride, or for others who can take this energy and do something positive today for LGBTIQ people and friends, ideally with some connection to Second Life.

  2. The Treasurer does technical things up to 90% of the time he or she is working for you. As little as 10% of the time is devoted to policy negotiation, and this with unpredictable success. For policy at a higher percentage of time and hit rate for success, may I refer you to the Presiding Chair. The contents of the Arrow Open Letter appear to be a good fit for you. Meantime you can see instances of my sincere effort to influence current policy in many areas on these pages and in answer to your questions. If elected, you will find me to be a patient, accessible Committee member, responsible for the actions of the Committee as a whole, including matters of policy, yet willing and able to work with each and every member, Ambassador, staff member, general member and interested person. My record as Building Chair 2009 supports this, and I invite you to check with DannielScarlet Destiny, Zack Preminger and others on concerns you may have about me.

  3. By our integrity, I mean our connection to taking it to the streets and not taking it any more from the man. In my own case, I expressed myself a bit too much as a gay person in my last job, and was fired for that and the unavoidable ugliness that comes with age. I continue to stand up for myself and LGBTIQ people and friends, and am now happy in my own practice and and in my role as Ambassador of Second Pride. By making ourselves into a carbon copy of a club, we might become just another club that belongs to the man, yessir, and we lose our freedom to set ourselves apart from that. Wouldn't you say Pride, no matter where it is, is no bar? Also, as it is, we can barely attract the elven and faerie people. At least they talk to us and say no, again. We simply have to do better, and if we invite them and others like them, they accept next time. I regard LGBTIQ friendly elven and faerie people as an important part of our living heritage, and the more we are about money (if I can refer to controversial aspects of the new vision this way), the less capable we are of attracting them in my truly humbling experience.

I sincerely believe all my differences with the new vision can be resolved if seated, but during campaign, it is important your candidates make vivid distinctions in favor of his or her inner voice. I offer you specific standards for transparency and technical proficiency your Treasurer must meet. I hope you find these standards in themselves useful, and I hope you see where one of us would be a better fit.

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Post on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:58 am  Meatjockey Lederberg


Thank for you for the welcome - and for your reply! This is actually my second association with SP Marketing. The story behind the first association actually ties into your point about our living heritage, and an earlier post about "...when we first broke the silence."

My first association was in 2007. One of the first questions I had was "Where are all the non-English speaking clubs, sponsors & participants?" Nobody knew. I was told that invitations, announcements, etc hadn't been written in anything other than English. I was surprised: an organization that represents the gay community in SL had not thought of spreading the word to people outside the English speaking community. My take on this was to make t-shirts that said "I am proud" in 7 or 8 different languages, in the colours of the rainbow flag, and distributed them to our club members. My way of sharing Pride.

I think we have come a long way from there. Our logo now includes a map of the world, and we have active membership from all parts of it.

Our frame of reference needs to respect that diversity as well. Stonewall "...when we first stood up for ourselves and held those first marches..." cannot therefore be The Beginning of the global gay movement, but a milestone in the American experience. If we admit this, then I believe we can begin to respect the actual living heritage of the community. If we do that, then we include the decriminalization of homosexual acts in 1811 in the Netherlands. or the efforts of Magnus Hirschfeld in Germany in 1897; so Many, whose languages, perceptions & expectations were different, but whose efforts we hold in common as "...our living heritage," and the collective benefits of which we enjoy as individuals.

To me, this larger context does nothing to diminish the power & meaning of Stonewall, and invites us all to learn and to explore: to go beyond ourselves as individuals to discover ourselves as a community.

You mentioned you see us "...making ourselves into a carbon copy of a club... ." My expectation is slightly different, based on what has already happened this year. The first Event was Teahouse of the August Moon, where i participated in a musical production, saw Kabuki Theatre for the first time ever, danced a bit, met people from all different parts of the community I had never seen or talked to before, and learned a lot. Our next event is the Art Walk, which celebrates diversity in expression. There's a little dancing there, but I think it's being held in a castle, not a club. Then there is our participation in Burning Life. I see a lot of learning, exploring, celebrating and taking the spirit of Second Pride " the streets"

"To every thing," in the immortal words of the Byrds, "Turn, Turn, Turn..." The Man is now a Woman, and those who held the picket signs have become the Establishment. I believe we need to accept the freedom that comes with responsibility and experience, and use that responsibility to do as much good as we can by being as effective as possible: prudent, pragmatic, creative, open and yes, humble.

I rejoice with you that we share this organization in common - and wish you the best of luck in this election.

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Post on Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:46 am  Guest

Awesome !

I'm glad to see someone who also raises the question of the languages ! Smile I had the exact same reaction as you in 2007 and in fact I had translated notecards to french for the acting committee and sent it to them. But they were added in the welcome centers only late.

In 2008 I managed to get the main INFO NOTE that was given out by the SP Kiosks in 13 languages, I still have a copy of that. I've tried to do that again, or to ask some people to work on it for 2009 too, since I was too busy myself, but it wasn't done in the end... One of the things I was sad about that year.

I beleive it is as you say very important if we claim to represent the SL LGBT community, it is a community full of languages, cultures, and different ways of thinking and to view things. A very good way to illustrate diversity.
As of yet SP 2008 remains the year where this diversity was most welcomed and served. I'm hoping it's not going to be the last.

I agree with your comments to Lemo also here.

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